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Anthony Mungin has been on death row in Florida since 1993, convicted for a crime in which he has always maintained his innocence. In the course of his correspondence with the free world for the last 16 years, he came across many teenagers, from the US and elsewhere. He has also been helping a specialized institution for many years dealing with troublesome youngsters from the ghetto, in Jacksonville, Florida. At the occasion of the day against the death penalty, the following interview contains insightful thoughts on how authorities should manage juvenile delinquency and his point of view on the death penalty applied to juveniles.
Anthony, you are working with the Victoria’s Academy who has testified on the positive change you have managed to induce in the heart of troublesome youngsters and the source of inspiration you are to them. What has compelled you to do so?
Anthony Mungin - Before setting forth my opinionated depiction, let me forewarn for the record that I am not the possessor of a Masters Degree in Psychology, nor any other academic degree dealing with the counseling of troublous youngsters. The inquiring of my perspective on the subject roused interest because of my past problematic experiences during my early twenties, then consequently, bearing just and unjust consequential factors – while radically engaging in a metamorphosis towards positive change. The self-induced transformation occurred while confined within a scanty cell on death row Amid the plight many encounters with teenagers and young adults emerged through correspondence. Initially, reluctance controlled my non-responsive demeanor. The cause of such reticent behavior derived from self-pity and the lack of self-esteem. Basically meaning “I don’t have time for this. I have enough problems of my own. Besides, I am not equipped with the beneficial skills to make a productive difference”. However, the heart those youngsters laid out in their personal letters to me – seemingly relating non judgmentally to the foolish choices of my past, admiring the positive changes I’ve made and expressing sympathy with regards to the injustice struggle – caused me to have a change of heart. I began analyzing the life-altering sadnesses of my past with the reality that there is nothing I can do to change the past. Now as a mature and wise adult I can easily pinpoint the instigations of those awry decisions. Suddenly it dawned on me that I could utilize the knowledge and understanding gained through past experiences to help others avoid similar mistakes. That is precisely what I began doing with the young people who corresponded with me, that is, after getting parental approval.
EP - Would you have ever thought that teenagers would be writing to you?
AM - When I first begin to reach out for support in my fight for justice, I had envisioned adults to respond to my petition for help. But, it was the impressive number of teenagers and young adults who reached out from the outside world to inside the world of death row to let me know they’re listening and feeling what I’m going through. In return, I gave these young people my undivided attention and the thoughts of my heart. Despite the age gap, friendships developed. Soon thereafter I noticed these teenagers begin to confide in me. Some are from countries I’ve never visited. In fact, many are from countries I can’t even pronounce. Nevertheless, their experiences – being confronted by a magnitude of choices, being pressurized by peers, and the acceptability era, in which, many teens will do just about anything to accomplish – reminded me of my own experiences as a youngster. Young people can be easily persuaded and influenced, but that works as a double-edge sword with positiveness on one side and negativism on the other. With a non-authoritative approach, I begin to smoothly insert positive advice, as well as, a blast of encouragement in response to their letters. Not one youngster has ever responded with defiance. It is not because I’m some genius when it comes to dealing with teenagers. I assure you I’m no genius. I simply have a non-judgmental approach. And I entrust a part of me to them. In return, they entrusted a part of themselves to me – opening a door so I can see what’s really going on within them.
One of the statements the youngsters always respond positively to is this: “Don’t confuse the act and process of being corrected with the erroneous notion that someone is trying to change who you are”.
EP - Let’s talk about the troublesome youngsters you deal with at the Victoria’s higher learning academy in Jacksonville, Florida. Those are ghetto kids who have been rejected from other schools which gave up on them. Some people would think that they are “bad seeds” which will ineluctably grow into offenders?
AM - You can take a 5 year old sweet white kid and put him in the ghetto and come back ten years later, and I bet you he’ll act just like every other kid in the ghetto. What is my point? My point is people will become a product of their environment. You can’t expect people who are oppressed and discriminated against to “act” like a family with a six figure income. There shouldn’t even be such a thing as a ghetto in these rich countries. These people are poor because of how the governments have been unfair to them. Yet they are struggling to survive – living from pay check to pay check, or they gamble with their freedom by street hustling. Most of the parents, in my opinion really do care but they have to work two or three jobs to pay rent and put food on the table. And that leaves the TV, Internet and the streets to raise their kids. These kids mentalities are shaped from what they intake from movies, internet and what they learn from the streets. And once you adopt such a mentality, it is difficult to shake it off.
EP - Are you suggesting that we should all blame it on the government’s policies and be more tolerant to juveniles who drop out of school and start committing offences?
AM- Teenagers are exactly what they are – TEENAGERS! They are not fully developed mentally, emotionally and spiritually. Am I implying that juveniles should be exempt from facing the consequences of their actions? No. A humane form of punishment is justified. But sentencing a mentally undeveloped being (a juvenile) to a maximum punishment equivalent to the judgment of an adult is exemplifying administrative abuse of power, over-zealous prosecutorial contempt, bureaucratic moral deficiency and a judicial blinding of eyes and hardening of hearts.
EP - What is the solution then?
AM - When you come across a bad tree, that is producing bad fruits, it makes no sense to cut the branch to solve the problem. If I were to get one of those bad behind youngsters from the hard core ghetto, and sat him down and punch a bunch of books in front of him to study, he would look at me as if I had lost my complete mind! I wouldn’t do that at first. Before I would shove books in his face, I would prepare “his mind first”. That is because he doesn’t even know his way of thinking is wrong. All he knows is ghetto shit.
Example: I have been working with my [death row] neighbor for the last five or six months. He is Puerto Rican. This guy is full of hatred. His mentality was all contorted. He used to say the craziest things you ever heard. He is 39 years old. So, he told me about his upbringing. No lie, this guy had me almost in tears. I felt sooooo sorry for him. He never had a chance at being someone decent in life. By age five, his uncle had him rolling joints for a dollar, by the time he was eight, he had his own gun. His parents beat the hell out of him because he came home crying when other boys had beat him up. He wasn’t allowed to cry as a kid. From childhood to teen years, his whole world was fighting, drugs and thugging. He grew up thinking that life was normal. When he and I got in our first conversation, he made me so mad because of how he was talking to me until I started to confront for disrespecting me like that. But as we continued to talk, I started asking specific questions. Then I realized he did not know any better. He never did the normal stuff I did as a kid. I had to find a way to tell him that his parents were wrong without offending him. I swear to you, this guy, for most parts, did not know right from wrong because of the inner world he was raised up in. My anger turned to sympathy and I have been working with this guy. He would get quiet for days at a time, then he will say: “Chico, man I have been thinking about what you explain and you know what, you are dead ass right!”. So he is coming around. Every book I read, I tell him to read it, too. Then, when he is finish, we will discuss the book. What I am doing is reshaping his mentality. It is what people will have to do with those lost ghetto youngsters. The Victoria Academy’s students have been kicked out of the lily white schools because those teachers don’t know how to reach those kids. These kids aren’t little monsters as many teachers have deem them. They are good kids who are simply lost.
EP - You seem to really care for those kids. The Victoria Academy implied that you have a very special gift to grab the attention of those kids, with your letters and poems, and to put them in a positive state of mind. Do you think you could be more useful to Society?
AM - My heart goes out to troublesome youngsters because I “see” myself in them. And I want to help them because I am confident I can! That is what I want to do with my life! It is not an act. It is in my heart to do it. My heart’s desire is to help youngsters understand how wrong decisions can lead them down a path that can lead to prison. I could influence and encourage them to make better choices and strive to further their education. I could use my past mistakes as examples. I could inspire them to believe in themselves and pursue legitimate careers. I could do it, if given the opportunity, because I know how to relate to troublesome youngsters: I’ve been there. Perhaps I could persuade the adults presiding over organizations created to help youngsters or juvenile correctional facilities out there to give me a chance to work or speak with these kids. Once they see how the kids respond to me, they will be impressed…
EP - What do you think of a justice system authorizing the execution of juvenile offenders?
AM - Sentencing juveniles to the death penalty, then executing a human being for acts done in their teen years doesn’t emblematize the principles of justice: it’s a duplicate act of barbaric extremism. As I’ve stated before, it is common that in our youth we see things in the absolute, unaware of the many layers that lie beneath the surface. However, TIME has a way of teaching us the folly of our absolute understanding. What appears to us, as reality in our youth becomes illusion when seen with the eyes of maturity. Considering the mode of my mind-set as a youngster and the observation throughout the years – just because a teenager is smart in school, illustrates mannerism, common sense and can distinguish the typical acts of right and wrong, doesn’t classify the teenager as an adult; nor should the teenager’s maturity level be emulated to that of an adult. Not one adult viewing this article can honestly say they would have made the same mistakes as a teenager had they possessed the knowledge, understanding, wisdom and maturity they possess now as an adult.
Those who sentence juveniles to the death penalty egregiously deprive mentally undeveloped minds time to be rehabilitated and molded into being constructive and productive.
Talk to kids, encourage kids, and teach kids, If I can reach a few from in here on death row, how much more can others do who are in a better position? Sentencing children to the death penalty and years later executing them is only accomplishing what the goals of law aims to prevent – the murder of a human being.
Anthony Mungin, 2009
Anthony, you are working with the Victoria’s Academy who has testified on the positive change you have managed to induce in the heart of troublesome youngsters and the source of inspiration you are to them. What has compelled you to do so?
Anthony Mungin - Before setting forth my opinionated depiction, let me forewarn for the record that I am not the possessor of a Masters Degree in Psychology, nor any other academic degree dealing with the counseling of troublous youngsters. The inquiring of my perspective on the subject roused interest because of my past problematic experiences during my early twenties, then consequently, bearing just and unjust consequential factors – while radically engaging in a metamorphosis towards positive change. The self-induced transformation occurred while confined within a scanty cell on death row Amid the plight many encounters with teenagers and young adults emerged through correspondence. Initially, reluctance controlled my non-responsive demeanor. The cause of such reticent behavior derived from self-pity and the lack of self-esteem. Basically meaning “I don’t have time for this. I have enough problems of my own. Besides, I am not equipped with the beneficial skills to make a productive difference”. However, the heart those youngsters laid out in their personal letters to me – seemingly relating non judgmentally to the foolish choices of my past, admiring the positive changes I’ve made and expressing sympathy with regards to the injustice struggle – caused me to have a change of heart. I began analyzing the life-altering sadnesses of my past with the reality that there is nothing I can do to change the past. Now as a mature and wise adult I can easily pinpoint the instigations of those awry decisions. Suddenly it dawned on me that I could utilize the knowledge and understanding gained through past experiences to help others avoid similar mistakes. That is precisely what I began doing with the young people who corresponded with me, that is, after getting parental approval.
EP - Would you have ever thought that teenagers would be writing to you?
AM - When I first begin to reach out for support in my fight for justice, I had envisioned adults to respond to my petition for help. But, it was the impressive number of teenagers and young adults who reached out from the outside world to inside the world of death row to let me know they’re listening and feeling what I’m going through. In return, I gave these young people my undivided attention and the thoughts of my heart. Despite the age gap, friendships developed. Soon thereafter I noticed these teenagers begin to confide in me. Some are from countries I’ve never visited. In fact, many are from countries I can’t even pronounce. Nevertheless, their experiences – being confronted by a magnitude of choices, being pressurized by peers, and the acceptability era, in which, many teens will do just about anything to accomplish – reminded me of my own experiences as a youngster. Young people can be easily persuaded and influenced, but that works as a double-edge sword with positiveness on one side and negativism on the other. With a non-authoritative approach, I begin to smoothly insert positive advice, as well as, a blast of encouragement in response to their letters. Not one youngster has ever responded with defiance. It is not because I’m some genius when it comes to dealing with teenagers. I assure you I’m no genius. I simply have a non-judgmental approach. And I entrust a part of me to them. In return, they entrusted a part of themselves to me – opening a door so I can see what’s really going on within them.
One of the statements the youngsters always respond positively to is this: “Don’t confuse the act and process of being corrected with the erroneous notion that someone is trying to change who you are”.
EP - Let’s talk about the troublesome youngsters you deal with at the Victoria’s higher learning academy in Jacksonville, Florida. Those are ghetto kids who have been rejected from other schools which gave up on them. Some people would think that they are “bad seeds” which will ineluctably grow into offenders?
AM - You can take a 5 year old sweet white kid and put him in the ghetto and come back ten years later, and I bet you he’ll act just like every other kid in the ghetto. What is my point? My point is people will become a product of their environment. You can’t expect people who are oppressed and discriminated against to “act” like a family with a six figure income. There shouldn’t even be such a thing as a ghetto in these rich countries. These people are poor because of how the governments have been unfair to them. Yet they are struggling to survive – living from pay check to pay check, or they gamble with their freedom by street hustling. Most of the parents, in my opinion really do care but they have to work two or three jobs to pay rent and put food on the table. And that leaves the TV, Internet and the streets to raise their kids. These kids mentalities are shaped from what they intake from movies, internet and what they learn from the streets. And once you adopt such a mentality, it is difficult to shake it off.
EP - Are you suggesting that we should all blame it on the government’s policies and be more tolerant to juveniles who drop out of school and start committing offences?
AM- Teenagers are exactly what they are – TEENAGERS! They are not fully developed mentally, emotionally and spiritually. Am I implying that juveniles should be exempt from facing the consequences of their actions? No. A humane form of punishment is justified. But sentencing a mentally undeveloped being (a juvenile) to a maximum punishment equivalent to the judgment of an adult is exemplifying administrative abuse of power, over-zealous prosecutorial contempt, bureaucratic moral deficiency and a judicial blinding of eyes and hardening of hearts.
EP - What is the solution then?
AM - When you come across a bad tree, that is producing bad fruits, it makes no sense to cut the branch to solve the problem. If I were to get one of those bad behind youngsters from the hard core ghetto, and sat him down and punch a bunch of books in front of him to study, he would look at me as if I had lost my complete mind! I wouldn’t do that at first. Before I would shove books in his face, I would prepare “his mind first”. That is because he doesn’t even know his way of thinking is wrong. All he knows is ghetto shit.
Example: I have been working with my [death row] neighbor for the last five or six months. He is Puerto Rican. This guy is full of hatred. His mentality was all contorted. He used to say the craziest things you ever heard. He is 39 years old. So, he told me about his upbringing. No lie, this guy had me almost in tears. I felt sooooo sorry for him. He never had a chance at being someone decent in life. By age five, his uncle had him rolling joints for a dollar, by the time he was eight, he had his own gun. His parents beat the hell out of him because he came home crying when other boys had beat him up. He wasn’t allowed to cry as a kid. From childhood to teen years, his whole world was fighting, drugs and thugging. He grew up thinking that life was normal. When he and I got in our first conversation, he made me so mad because of how he was talking to me until I started to confront for disrespecting me like that. But as we continued to talk, I started asking specific questions. Then I realized he did not know any better. He never did the normal stuff I did as a kid. I had to find a way to tell him that his parents were wrong without offending him. I swear to you, this guy, for most parts, did not know right from wrong because of the inner world he was raised up in. My anger turned to sympathy and I have been working with this guy. He would get quiet for days at a time, then he will say: “Chico, man I have been thinking about what you explain and you know what, you are dead ass right!”. So he is coming around. Every book I read, I tell him to read it, too. Then, when he is finish, we will discuss the book. What I am doing is reshaping his mentality. It is what people will have to do with those lost ghetto youngsters. The Victoria Academy’s students have been kicked out of the lily white schools because those teachers don’t know how to reach those kids. These kids aren’t little monsters as many teachers have deem them. They are good kids who are simply lost.
EP - You seem to really care for those kids. The Victoria Academy implied that you have a very special gift to grab the attention of those kids, with your letters and poems, and to put them in a positive state of mind. Do you think you could be more useful to Society?
AM - My heart goes out to troublesome youngsters because I “see” myself in them. And I want to help them because I am confident I can! That is what I want to do with my life! It is not an act. It is in my heart to do it. My heart’s desire is to help youngsters understand how wrong decisions can lead them down a path that can lead to prison. I could influence and encourage them to make better choices and strive to further their education. I could use my past mistakes as examples. I could inspire them to believe in themselves and pursue legitimate careers. I could do it, if given the opportunity, because I know how to relate to troublesome youngsters: I’ve been there. Perhaps I could persuade the adults presiding over organizations created to help youngsters or juvenile correctional facilities out there to give me a chance to work or speak with these kids. Once they see how the kids respond to me, they will be impressed…
EP - What do you think of a justice system authorizing the execution of juvenile offenders?
AM - Sentencing juveniles to the death penalty, then executing a human being for acts done in their teen years doesn’t emblematize the principles of justice: it’s a duplicate act of barbaric extremism. As I’ve stated before, it is common that in our youth we see things in the absolute, unaware of the many layers that lie beneath the surface. However, TIME has a way of teaching us the folly of our absolute understanding. What appears to us, as reality in our youth becomes illusion when seen with the eyes of maturity. Considering the mode of my mind-set as a youngster and the observation throughout the years – just because a teenager is smart in school, illustrates mannerism, common sense and can distinguish the typical acts of right and wrong, doesn’t classify the teenager as an adult; nor should the teenager’s maturity level be emulated to that of an adult. Not one adult viewing this article can honestly say they would have made the same mistakes as a teenager had they possessed the knowledge, understanding, wisdom and maturity they possess now as an adult.
Those who sentence juveniles to the death penalty egregiously deprive mentally undeveloped minds time to be rehabilitated and molded into being constructive and productive.
Talk to kids, encourage kids, and teach kids, If I can reach a few from in here on death row, how much more can others do who are in a better position? Sentencing children to the death penalty and years later executing them is only accomplishing what the goals of law aims to prevent – the murder of a human being.
Anthony Mungin, 2009
